Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
General Discussion
 FSI Language Courses Forum : Learning Languages : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: FSI Malay or Indonesian. Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 2 Next >>
Author Message
FutureSpy
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 13 January 2007
Location: Brazil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Quote FutureSpy Replybullet Topic: FSI Malay or Indonesian.
    Posted: 19 February 2007 at 5:19am
Hi.

Was there ever any Malay or Indonesian FSI Language Courses?
I tried looking for them, but couldn't seem to find anything on these ones.

Thanks
-Yuji
真実はいつもひとつ!
IP IP Logged
onebir
Ambassador
Ambassador


Joined: 16 October 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
Quote onebir Replybullet Posted: 19 February 2007 at 10:47am
There was an FSI (or DLI?) Indonesian Course.  Some libraries in the US have it, but I've never seen any audio, so I doubt it'll be uploaded here soon...
IP IP Logged
TheBigZaboon
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06 August 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Quote TheBigZaboon Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2007 at 5:12am
There was an Indonesian Newspaper Reader available from FSI. It was not accompanied by any audio. It used to be on sale in the lobby of the State Department in Washington, DC, when Little Zaboona was just a girl, but I think it may have been allowed to go out of print. I think that is the only FSI material related to Indonesia. There is a book with the same title listed (but not available) on the ERIC site, but I don't know if it is the same one.
 
There is another reader called "Nah! Baca" that IS available on the ERIC site. You can reach it at the end of one of onebir's posts (I'm sorry, but I don't remember which thread it is in.). If you go to that listing and open the book with the newest version of the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can save a copy for yourself free of charge. The "Nah! Baca" reader is more difficult than the old FSI newspaper reader. The FSI reader was pretty much an introductory textbook, starting out with headlines, and progressing through short "diplomacy" oriented news blurbs. "Nah! Baca" is a full-blown textbook for more advanced students. 
 
See ya.
 
TBZ
IP IP Logged
DemiPuppet
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote DemiPuppet Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2007 at 10:35pm
Speaking of Indonesian Newspaper Reader, I've finished scanning the book. But I've run into a bit of a copyright issue.  The FSI writers of the book failed to cite the newspaper sources.  Indonesian copyright law (Number 19 , Year 2002) Chap 2, Part 5, Article 14 allows:

repetition, either in whole or in part, of news from a news agency, broadcasting organization, and newspaper or any other resources, provided that the source thereof shall be fully cited.
In order to safely add the book to this site, I need to know the newspaper(s) used.  If anyone has access to Indonesian newspapers between March and June of 1968, please let me know.  Most of the examples in the book have the exact date, so selecting a couple and verifying the newspaper should be easy.

Edit: This article of the law was valid in 1996, so USA copyright would be satisfied.


Edited by DemiPuppet - 20 February 2007 at 10:54pm
IP IP Logged
TheBigZaboon
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06 August 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Quote TheBigZaboon Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:44am
DemiPuppet,
 
This is a long shot, because I haven't seen this book in nearly 20 years, but if I remember correctly, the citation is at the beginning of each little clip. For example, there might be a date, and then something like Berita Yuhda, Berita Wartawan, Tempo, Berita Harian, etc., and a city name like Jakarta (Djakarta) or Surabaya. These items may be in a different order, but I thought they were included.  That would be a citation of the news source, just like our attribution to AP, UPI, or Agence France Presse.   I would think that would suffice.
 
TBZ
IP IP Logged
onebir
Ambassador
Ambassador


Joined: 16 October 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
Quote onebir Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2007 at 5:16am
The original notification email I got says this:

" Indonesian copyright law Article 13c allows:

repetition, either in whole or in part, of news from a news agency, radio or television broadcaster, and newspaper not less than 1 x 24 (one times twenty four) hours counted from the initial publication of such news, and the source thereof shall be fully cited."

The 24 hour reference seems to indicate there's no problem (unless the edit was necessary because this quote is from of date legislation).

What about citing them fully, but as a group?  ie saying the quotes in this book come from [list of all indonesian newspapers in publication in 1968] - the book provides the dates, completing the citation from each article.  That satifies the letter of the law (which has no chance of being exercised for 40 year old 'news'...)
IP IP Logged
DemiPuppet
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote DemiPuppet Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2007 at 9:21pm
The first post (before the edit) had the quote from the 1997 Act.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html

The latter one was from a link in Wikipedia to a UNESCO site containing the 2002 version of the act.  The UNESCO site seemed more official...

I couldn't find any indication of which newspapers were used.  Based on the dateline style (or lack of it), there was at least 2 and possible 3.  Here are short examples of the 3 styles (Fair Use laws apply in this case):

Haile Selassie tiba di Australia
Djakarta, 14 Mei
     Kaiser Ethiopia Haile Selassie I hari Senin tiba di
Canberra, ibukota Australia, dari Djakarta.


Pak Ali di Paris
     Missis Ali Sastroamidjojo hari Minggu telah tiba di
Paris dari Accra dalam perdjalanannja ke Afrika Utara.


Dubes Maramis Di Ulan Bator
Ulan Bator, 14-5
     Dutabesaar Replublik Indonesia untuk Republik Rakjat
Mongolia, Max Maramis, hari Selasa telah diterima oleh
wakil Menteri Luar Negeri I Mongolia, L. Toiv di Ulan Bator.

The FSI text gives definitions of all the words before giving the text of the news article.

If all else fails, I'll add a note to the beginning of the text listing the most popular newspapers of the time and let GDF make the call on whether it can be hosted on his site. Does anyone have a list of the most popular Indonesian newspapers of 1968?
IP IP Logged
TheBigZaboon
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06 August 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Quote TheBigZaboon Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2007 at 9:54pm
The newspapers and news services I listed in my previous post are a representative group that were popular at the time. They are the type of publications that would carry the articles that would turn up in the FSI Indonesian Newspaper Reader. There should be some mention of the sources somewhere in the book, either in the introduction, or at the back, in a bibliography. (Maybe I'm showing too much faith in the FSI folks.)
 
TBZ
IP IP Logged
DemiPuppet
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 163
Quote DemiPuppet Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2007 at 10:46pm
I took another look through the book; didn't find anything.

I'll mention the titles you gave.

BTW, a subject search in WorldCat:
su:Jakarta (Indonesia) Newspapers
produced about 130 hits. Not all of them were in production in 1968. Looks like the "Center for Research Libraries" in Chicago has a lot of the newspapers on microfilm, so if anyone lives in the area...
IP IP Logged
onebir
Ambassador
Ambassador


Joined: 16 October 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 116
Quote onebir Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:59am
" The first post (before the edit) had the quote from the 1997 Act.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html

The latter one was from a link in Wikipedia to a UNESCO site containing the 2002 version of the act. "

In that case, I don't think there's a problem.  As a rule, legislation doesn't act retrospectively. If it does it usually spells this out in the section explaining when it comes into force. (At least for UK legislation.)

Assuming the more recent version of the act doesn't mention that it applies retrospectively - which seems very unlikely given its nature - the legislation that counts is what was in force at the time of publication.  This included the 24 hour time limit, so the FSI weren't breaking Indonesian law by publishing the extracts (unless the reader was produced in record time), and there's no need to provide full citations now...
IP IP Logged
Page  of 2 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 1.453 seconds.