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 FSI Language Courses Forum : Learning Languages : General Discussion
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Dionysio
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Quote Dionysio Replybullet Topic: I Cannot Believe It!
    Posted: 08 June 2007 at 3:09am
I cannot believe I found this site.  It is the greatest thing ever!  I was looking up some information on Pimsleur courses and FSI was mentioned in a review so I googled it and found you!  I have a million questions too.  I owned the Barron versions of German, Portuguese, and French so I am a bit familiar with some of the methods but I did not really try to go through them.  I speak Spanish, English and French, and to a lesser degree, German, Italian and Japanese.  I majored in Spanish and French and have worked for years as a Spanish-English interpreter and translator.  Here are the questions:

  • How would you compare these to Pimsleur in terms of depth and fluency?
  • What courses does FSI use now or does it still use these?
  • Will DLI courses be added?  (Please say yes)
  • I have read complaints about some of these courses being a bit dated.  What is your take on that?
  • Are all basic courses coordinated with the original FSI level 2?
  • Where would you rate Pimsleur materials for level three on the FSI scale?
  • Are there other programmatic courses from other institutions? 

Thanks and sorry for all the questions.



Edited by Dionysio - 08 June 2007 at 3:14am
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Chung
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Quote Chung Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 4:41pm
1) Any FSI Programmatic or Basic Course blows Pimsleur out of the water. Pimsleur is good for getting you started and knowing how to parrot a few hundred stock phrases like a native. That's all. The exorbitant cost of Pimsleur aside, there is some value for some people who prefer to get a feel for the spoken language by completing some Pimsleur kits before tackling comprehensive courses by FSI, Assimil etc..

2) FSI very probably uses updated versions of these courses. The courses that are here date from between the 1960s and 1980s. I doubt that FSI would want to train people with materials containing this many obsolete technical, cultural or political references.

3) It's up to gdfellows. There've been quite a few threads already about DLI courses and their eligibility, but no one yet has been able to  demonstrate convincingly to gdfellows' satisfaction that they'd be eligible for posting.

4) These courses are free and the focus is learning how to use a language rather than get distracted and go off on tangents about dated cultural or technical references. Complaining about a free resource sounds churlish in my opinion. If anyone wants to focus on learning more about the culture or history of a people, relying on a language course isn't optimal and the time would be better spent travelling to that country, reading suitable books or discussing such matters with people who are familiar with the area. Indeed, more knowledgeable people on this forum have helped people who want clarification about what would be a more modern way of using the language. For example, a recent thread about FSI Turkish brought out some people who're fluent in Turkish to make comments and suggested alternatives to some of the expressions used in the course.

5) As far as I can remember, completing the Basic Courses as part of FSI's classroom training (30hrs. per week for anywhere between 22 and 44 weeks) would bring someone to that level (working proficiency).

6) Not at all. Pimsleur teaches you how to speak and spit out a few hundred stock phrases like a native. At best, your oral and aural command of the spoken language would be around 1 or 1+ on the old FSI scale after completing Vols. 1 to 3 of a language in the "Pimsleur Comprehensive" series. Given that Pimsleur doesn't teach grammar or much in the way of writing, one's written or reading command of the language would be negligible.

7) Maybe DLI. Perhaps institutions in other countries have created courses for native speakers of languages other than English that are similar to the structure of FSI Programmatic courses, but that's just my guess.
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daristani
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Quote daristani Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2007 at 4:46pm
Since no one has yet responded to your questions, I'll give some very quick answers based on my own understanding and prejudices; please don't take the following as anything definitive.

Comparison to Pimsleur:  I've never used Pimsleur, but from what I've read from a lot of people, Pimsleur takes you nowhere near as far as FSI does.  The Pimsleur courses may be easy to start out with, but the total vocabulary they teach is pretty small, even if you complete all three levels.  Also, to the best of my knowledge, they don't provide any instruction in the written language at all.  (Also, they're rather expensive, unlike the free courses on this site Smile)

Courses now used at FSI:  I have no idea; I suspect some of the ones here are still used to a degree, but that others may not be.  I do know that the US Government's Inter Agency Language Roundtable produced a new Turkish course a few years ago, but have no idea what they use currently.

DLI materials:  It's up to gdfellows, who owns the site, and assuming he agrees, to whoever wants to donate materials.  Remember that this is all a volunteer effort with people providing what they have access to, so no promises can be made about what will be made available in the future.

Dated materials:  Some of the vocabulary is a bit old-fashioned, but the basic languages don't change all that much.  Personally, I think this is a silly bugbear that some people have and doesn't make much difference.  The courses were never intended to teach the latest teenage slang, but if you master the materials they provide, you should be able to hold a conversation with native speakers without great difficulty, and they can then tell you if a word or expression you use is no longer current.  But I wouldn't get hung up on this.

FSI Level 2 coordination:  Hard to generalize.  The courses were produced at different times, by different groups of people, with different approaches, under different conditions, and with different goals at the time, so I think it's probably not realistic to expect too much standardization in terms of either the materials or the expected results.

Rating Pimsleur on the FSI scale:  Sorry, I have no idea, but I think Pimsleur will not bring you to a very high level, based on comments I've read from others.

Other programmatic courses:  Probably so, but I don't have any details.

For further opinions (and sometimes endless arguments) about the relative virtues of FSI, Pimsleur, Assimil, etc., go to the forums at the

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html

site and work your way through the old threads.  You'll find lots of comments based on people's experiences with different methods and languages.

ADDENDUM:  I see that Chung sent in his comments while I was still writing mine.  He's a very accomplished linguist in a number of languages, and I'd recommend you give credence to his opinions.


Edited by daristani - 09 June 2007 at 4:48pm
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