Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
German
 FSI Language Courses Forum : Learning Languages : German
Message Icon Topic: Changes since 1961 Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 2
Author Message
kflavin84
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Quote kflavin84 Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2007 at 5:13am
Unit 6:

1. Konferenz is still one of the main words but it seems more and more people say Meeting now, especially if it has anything to do with Marketing or seeming modern.

2. Auskunft is still used but die Information and the slang Infos are also very common in business German.

3. Fernamt and Ferngespräch are the long distance operator and a long distance phone call but they're as uncommon as they are in english.  Some important words are das Handy the cell phone, die Nachricht message, die SMS in Germany das SMS in Austria for Text Message, Box is Mail box on my cell phone.

4. das Auto is more common than der Wagen for a car these days.

5. Füller is a fountain pen, Kuli is short for a Kugelschreiber, a ball point pen.

6. The whole thing about Telephone calls is out of date.  I've only had a cell phone since I've been in Europe so I'm not sure exactly but I know you don't need to talk to an operator to make a long distance phone call.  I'm not sure about making collect calls.

Unit 7:

1. garnicht is now spelled gar nicht.

2. draussen is now spelled draußen

Unit 8:

1. Grösse is now spelled Größe.

Unit 9:

1. Heiss is now spelled heiß

2. Photoapparat is now spelled Fotoapparat.

Unit 10:

1. This one oddly enough is a change in english a helles Bier is translated as a light beer by this they mean something like a lager not a Light Beer like Bud or Coors Light.

Unit 11.

1. Beeil' dich.  The apostrophe in the singular imperative is no longer required.  Technically it used to be Beeile Dich but the e was so often dropped that since the spelling reform its now considered the standard and with the e a more formal alternative.

2. Friseur, the French spelling, is probably more common than Frisör.



Unit 12:

1. Sitzen and Stehen use sein in the perfect tense in Southern Germany and Austria.

Edited by kflavin84 - 08 February 2007 at 5:17am
IP IP Logged
kflavin84
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Quote kflavin84 Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2007 at 5:40am
Unit 13:

1. This chapter uses the imperfect tense, which is always used in writing but only seldom used in Germany in speech and except for haben, sein, the modals, gehen, and

geben.  The rules they give you here are what are generally used in most of Germany.  In Austria, the perfect is often used in subordinate clauses.  German: Als ich nach Hause kam vs Austrian: Als ich nach Hause gekommen bin.

If you follow the rules here Germans won't notice and the Austrians and Swiss will consider you to be educated.

2. Kennenlernen is now spelled as two word kennen lernen.

3. Saubermachen is now spelled as sauber machen.


Unit 14:


1. The e ending in the dative singular is not as common now as it was then.  Mainly it should always be used in expressions like zu/nach Hause and im Jahre although you will hear zu/nach Haus but they're considered colloquial.

Unit 16.

1. Ausserdem is now spelled Außerdem.

Unit 17:

1. Photogeschäft is now spelled Fotogeschäft.

2. Camera is no longer an accepted spelling of Kamera.

3. Plattenspieler is a record player, some subsitutes are CD-Spieler, Mp3 (Em pee drei) Player, and der Ipod.

4. Instead of Meinetwegen wegen mir is sometimes used particulary in the south.

5. Schliessen is now spelled schließen.

6. The first two rules in the notes on sentences no longer apply.  German now allows 3 letters in a row e.g. Imbissstube,Schifffahrt, and most of the Greek loan words are now

Germanified.  

7. Die Platte the record, der Cd (Zee Dee), das Mp3

Unit 18:

1. Regelmässig is now spelled regelmäßig.


Unit 19:

1. Naturally, East Germany doesn't exist anymore although you still hear drüben used in both East and West to refer to each other.  Traditionally, the rivalry was between the Protestant flat north and the Catholic mountainous south but now there is also a rivalry between the richer former west and poorer former east.


Unit 22:

1. German cars no longer have semaphores.

2. The subjunctive is not as common as it used to be particularly in the South and in Austria.  Most verbs now use würde except for the modals, sein, and haben although it

wouldn't be considered wrong to say würde sein or würde haben in speech although they would be considered colloquial.  In writing however you should still use the real forms.


Unit 23:

1. While the past subjunctive is still often used in speech the present subjunctive has become very uncommon.  Even in writing it is not used as often as it once was.  It is mainly used in newspapers because it is considered more objective.

For example: "Richard Nixon sagte, dass er kein Verbrecher ist." because it uses the indicative could imply that it is true that he's not a crook.

"Richard Nixon sagte, er sei kein Verbrecher" simply means that he said and the newspaper is not saying whether it is true or not, they're simply reporting that he said it.

I would say this is probably the only part of the grammar in this course that I might disagree with.  How indirect speech is used varies from person to person by age, education, region, and personal preference.  In Austria, I generally learned to use the

present subjunctive in formal writing, the indicative in speech, and the present subjunctive in speech to indicate I don't believe what the person said, and the the past subjuncitve in writing to indicate the same thing.  A German professor from Freiburg in

Germany told me use the present subjunctive in formal writing and speech, the indicative in everyday speech, and the past subjuncitve to indicate disbelief.  You should probably follow the rules in the book and just pick up what feels natural after a while.

IP IP Logged
Karat
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 15 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Quote Karat Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:34pm
Only a few comments.

17.4 I wouldnt understand "wegen mir" instead of "meinetwegen". I think it shouldn't be used if you are not trying to imitate a strange dialect.

17.7 Its "die CD". "das mp3" is formally correct but I think you will hear "die mp3" very often. Its a somewhat grey area.

Thats all, I wont comment on the subjunctive, I guess your grammer knowledge is far better than mine. :) But I have the feeling that the subjunctive is slowly following the Genitiv into the cold German language grave.



Edited by Karat - 08 February 2007 at 12:36pm
IP IP Logged
kflavin84
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Quote kflavin84 Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2007 at 5:49am
My bad about CD. I think the Austrians tend to use das for english loan words more than the Germans. Austrians say das Email, das SMS, and das Cola while Germans use die for all those words. The Austrian logic is that they are neuter in english, and the German logic is that electronische post and Limonade are feminine so you should use die. Do you'll hear die Story for die Geschichte, which I think is one of the most annoying Denglish words.

For anyone whose finished the course you should pick up a copy of Der Dativ ist dem Genetiv sein Tod. There are a few volumes and it basically just talks about how native German speakers speak German so terribly. How they use to much English, misspell words, completely ignore the subjunctive, literally translate English idioms that are wrong in German etc. For a book about grammar it's suprisingly funny and it's reassuring to know that Germans don't understand the subjunctive either, so you're not alone.
IP IP Logged
Karat
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 15 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Quote Karat Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2007 at 8:40am
The author of the book writes regularly on Spiegel.de: http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/zwiebelfisch/0,1518,332092,00.html
Should be something for you if you like those self-appointed saviours of the German language. ;)
IP IP Logged
LessPaul
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 26 July 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Quote LessPaul Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2007 at 2:51pm

I have just discovered this wealth of information that are the FSI language courses.  Given that some material is dated, and many of the audio files are of marginal quality, I was wondering how much, if any, interest there would be in an update effort as follows:

- OCR conversion of the printed manual to Word
   (or other common format) 
- Updating of content incorporating spelling reform and other
  input (as in this thread)
- Creation of new corrseponding audio using Text-to-speech technologies
 
I realize that text-to-speech is not a perfect answer, but it is a reasonable alternative to sometimes incomprehensible original tapes.
 
 
IP IP Logged
saman.shahin
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 22 May 2008
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Quote saman.shahin Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2008 at 8:03am
I have Tangram source files (mp3 and printed books that scanned)
 
everyone that want this course mail me to send him/her.
 
I guess tangram is better.
 
thanks!Smile
IP IP Logged
chrismes
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06 August 2008
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Quote chrismes Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2008 at 4:02am
A general comment on spelling (from a native speaker working as a journalist):
 
I am suprised that there are many comments saying that words with ss are now spelled with ß.
 
They were all written with ß already in the 1960s except in Switzerland where they are still written with ss. But when the course was written up PCs were quasi not existing and apparently they did not have German typewriters at the State Department... ;)
 
Actually, it is rather the other way around, i.e. some words that used to be written with ß are now ss, e.g. nass instead naß (wet). The rule is that whenever the vowel is short ss follows instead of ß.
 
As regards Photo, Phantasie and the like, the spelling with Ph is still in use and considered correct (even by the 2006 Duden edition). For non-native speakers it's probably better not to burden themselves with the puzzle why it should be Foto but Philosophie and Phonetik.
 
Dort & da. There are examples where dort instead of da would sound odd: If you want to call Thomas, but his mother answers the phone you would ask: Ist Thomas da? (meaning "at home", near the mother).
 
However the word da can create confusion if Austrians and Germans talk to each other. In Austria it almost always means the same as hier (here) while in Germany da has the notion of either being present, having arrived (Ist Herr Müller schon da?) or it refers to a place which is somewhere else (i.e. synonomys to dort). It can also be used to refer to a point in the past (da habe ich mich sehr gefreut). So, apart from the latter use, if a German speaks to you, you can savely translate da to there, while if it's an Austrian you probably have to translate it to here. Big%20smile
IP IP Logged
JennieLynn
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Quote JennieLynn Replybullet Posted: 19 August 2008 at 9:29am
I plan on doing an HTML version of the German course one of these days, and I'd like to include these changes. Do the contributors mind if I use what you wrote? I'll include thanks back to you with your forum name or real name, if you like.

If anyone wants to help with the PDF to HTML conversion, let me know. I've started the French course already: http://www.ielanguages.com/fsi/frenchcontents.html
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 2
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.093 seconds.