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Karen
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Quote Karen Replybullet Topic: Thai Basic Lessons in Thai Script
    Posted: 02 July 2007 at 5:59am

I've been living and working in Thailand for about three years.  I've learned to read, write and typewrite Thai script and I'm going over the transliterations and converting them to Thai Script.

 For those of you who are interested,  please let me know if this will be of any use to you.
 
Reading Thai script is MUCH EASIER than reading the Roman letter transcriptions of Thai....
 
Once you learn the Thai alphabet and vowel/tone system!  Of course!
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delarey
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Quote delarey Replybullet Posted: 12 July 2007 at 1:35am
yeah, that will be appreciated very much...hope to see your work!
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pebah
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Quote pebah Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2007 at 1:34am

That would be great! I like the FSI course but I think the English transliteration they use is terrible. It is much easier to learn proper pronunciation with the Thai alphabet.

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emptysilo
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Quote emptysilo Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2007 at 8:32am
I disagree. The thai writing system isn't about pronunciation. Though not nearly as bad as english, there are differences between the writing system and the pronunciation of those same words. A good transliteration system will show the pronunciation of the word, not according to the rules. Just think of the word khaw (he,she,it). Its usual pronunciation is different than if one follows the usual tonal rules. Also, neutralization of the tones and length of the vowels are not always captured by the writing system.

If you have a good transliteration system, then you are reading pronunciation, something you will not get from the writing system. Just a thought.

ES.
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pebah
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Quote pebah Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2007 at 4:33am
I agree about a "good transliteration system" but for me the one they use isn't good. The easiest transliteration system is a personal thing.
 
In your example I would write khao, kow, khaow, etc.  I read khaw as the word for island,  the same as koh or gaw.
 
Since I use several different programs it is easier for me to read the Thai script (which is a useful skill) rather than try to learn several different transliteration systems. I know there are exceptions in pronunciations but I don't think there are that many...especially compared to English.
 
Good luck in your studies.
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emptysilo
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Quote emptysilo Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2007 at 8:32am
I think transliteration systems are good for pronunciation, sometimes. For reading, it is better to use the script because different combinations have the same pronunciation and more importantly, that is what material is published with. I am aware of the amount of possible transliteration systems. Thais use one in chat, books use ones with different english and nonenglish letters.

My argument is only about using a transliteration system for pronunciation. Once you know how a word, phrase, sentences are pronounced you can beginning to learn it in Thai (if reading it important to you).  However, to begin from the script and skipping transliteration system will be detrimental to your pronunciation I think.

But not all transliteration systems are equal. Some aren't for conversation I guess. You can tell a lot of times because first syllables are toneless for example. Also, vowel length can change for the words among other things.

I would stick with a good book that has enough length, so you are only using one transliteration system at a time. If the system is good, you should be reading pronunciation which is what beginners with little or no Thai help need. Just my opinion.

I see you are in Thailand already pebah so maybe just talk like they talk and read what they read would be nice. If that is what you do, then I think transliteration systems aren't for you unless you want to write down pronunciation.

ES.
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Karen
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Quote Karen Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 5:16am

The most popular transliteration system for Europeans is the so-called "Haas" system (named after Mary Haas, a German expat of long ago).

This is the same system used in the best-selling Thai language book "Beginning Thai" by Benjawan Poomsam Becker.

However, Ms. Becker a native Thai person, strongly recommends that the student of Thai should not rely on ANY non-Thai writing system.  Her argument is that it is a waste of time.  I took her advice and now I am WAY AHEAD of most expats that have been here much longer than me.

I met a Frenchman that has been here almost 20 years and although he can speak colloquial Thai much better than I can he has a very limited vocabulary.  Thai has a very rich and varied vocabulary (especially verbs).  The writing system is an integral part of the language that cannot be substituted by any kind of transliteration system.  Once you learn the unique consonants the words will seem to jump off the page at you!  They have 'life' they have a 'soul'. 

 

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emptysilo
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Quote emptysilo Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2007 at 10:39pm
It is certainly a waste of time for Becker because she learned pronunciation and reading differently then most of us. I don't know her argument, but maybe she thinks why learn transliteration when you can just go straight to the writing system. Or maybe it interferes with the learning of the writing system.

Certainly if your goal is to read Thai, this really is the best course of action, but my argument so far and I am not sure if you are replying to me, is that the writing system does not capture the pronunciation accurately. I mean, Thai words don't always follow the rules. I suppose by following some general rules, you can interpret the writing system to produce the right colloquial pronunciation.

For the Frenchmen and for most of us, our vocabulary is what we need and some other words picked up along the way. No one knows all the words, each profession has its own lingo. Some of us don't need 100000 vocabulary words. When we have enough, most of us can stagnate. Consider this. If the Frenchmen, for each day he had been in Thailand, learn the use and used one more Thai word he would know 7300 words. Two words, 14600.

Mainly, I disagree with the premise that transliteration is automatically bad. Transliteration can be useful. But not for all of us. Thanks for the input.

ES.
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delarey
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Quote delarey Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2007 at 11:18pm

i'm pretty eager to see your work, because im pretty interested in thailand and its culture.

well i dont like transliteration very much, as a chinese, i have seen many chinese textbooks published in china that teach student chinese character from the first chapter alongside with pinyin, unlike many texts published in western countries. I think many people chinese will not disrespect you just because you can speak while cannot write chinese, but it's rather for your own sake to learn the characters, or other asian languages in their own script/chararcters, because nobody's gonna write transliterations for you in public places.
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mogscout
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Quote mogscout Replybullet Posted: 09 August 2007 at 12:39pm
  I am excited to see the finished product.  I am curious to know what format you are doing it in?  Will it just be a text file? or will you make it into a pdf of something?  I began transcribing the FSI course into Thai from the transliteration a while back, but got discouraged after a few pages, especially after finding that Dunwoody Press had already converted the entire FSI course into Thai script with supplementary material added.  I would rather just buy the book set from Dunwoody.
  About transliteration v. Thai script-- I started learning Thai when I was seventeen with a little "Language 30" booklet and the accompanying 2 cassettes.  I learned from a simple phonetic chart of English-Thai equivalents to read at the outset, albeit not so well because I still had a hard time reading tones, but I have since come to appreciate tremendously my initial efforts to read and write from the beginning.  I am of the opinion that if you are depending on transliteration, you should ween yourself off of it as soon as possible, and only refer to it when there are ambiguous spellings, which don't occur as often as some posters in this thread have made it seem.  Words like Kao เขา and Chan ฉัน are often times written by Thais as เค้า and ชั้น, respectively.  Both are a shift from rising tone to high tone.
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