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 FSI Language Courses Forum : Learning Languages : French
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andrew
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Quote andrew Replybullet Topic: How many levels in French?
    Posted: 20 October 2006 at 1:38am
Hi All,
 
Just a quick question to know how many FSI French levels there are. I seem to get the impression there are only 2 going to be available on the site but there are 4 in total?
 
Has any one actually completed all 4 levels?
 
Thanks,
Andrew
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jwcthev
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Quote jwcthev Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2006 at 10:07am
There are 2 levels of FSI French (12 units each for a total of 24 units).
 
It is hard to compare the number of units from one FSI course to another because more units can simply mean shorter chapters.
 
Here, the FSI French units are twice as long (at least) as FSI Spanish Basic, with multiple, multiple sets of drills.
 
From the standpoint of the recorded audio, FSI Spanish (with 55 units) may have about 2/3's the amount of audio as in FSI French audio (with 24 units).  That is, FSI French has something in the range of an additional 30 hours of drills.
 
In my opinion, FSI Spanish is more logically organized for an easy progression.  The course follows more cleanly the dialogue, grammar, drill format.  With about an hour of audio for a total unit, that is more manageable for a working person to manage in a week.
 
In contrast FSI French drills go on and on and on, with multiple chunks of grammar and vocabulary lists in the same unit.  The end result is one has to pay more attention to the written manual to make sure all grammar and vocabulary is covered, while it makes it less interesting to do long drill segments with little additional syntactical material.
 
That being said, it looks to me like FSI French covers the same amount of vocabulary and grammar as FSI Spanish, but includes about 33 % more opportunities to speak and listen to the language in terms of drills and audio.  Many people don't realize this because Units 1-8 present grammar and vocabulary rather slowly, but the course really starts to pick up by Unit 9 and by 12-24 the course leads one through heavy drilling in the subjunctive and all kinds of drills with prepositions, verb forms, etc. that are the bane of French students everywhere. 
 
As a barrier to completing the course, many people begin by buying Barron's Level One Mastering French (which is really just FSI French Units 1-6), and then give up in frustration because the grammar is introduced exponentially later on in the course, so they never see the benefits of all 24 units if done sequencially.
 
Because French is harder to speak for most English speakers than Spanish (and a strong American accent supposedly sounds far worse in French than an American accent with Spanish), that makes FSI French the best course for developing mechanical speaking skills.
 
As a side note, French in Action (in my opinion) is the best course for developing audio comprehension, and it has audio drills, but it does not drill one in the mechanics of grammar and syntax to the same degree as FSI.  My belief is a smart approach (and thanks to our for administrator, now free for the FSI coure)  is to use FSI French to learn and master grammar and mechanical speaking ability, while using French in Action (also available for free on the internet) to leaven the dry (but extremely useful) FSI approach with entertaining cultural nuggets of information and massive audio immersion.
 
To summarize:  FSI French over 24 units appears to have just as much grammar and vocabulary as Basic Spanish 1-55, but is spread out less logically over extremely long (to the point of being discouraging) Units. 
 
FSI French has 1/3 more audio content than FSI Spanish, and is THE course to use if one needs drilling in French to have unconscious, fluent command of grammar and syntax, with authentic intonation and speech patterns.  FSI Spanish in presentation is not only more logically organized into feasible chunks, but is also somewhat more enjoyable.  But the FSI French course has its own comparative strenghts, as FSI Spanish actually provides less opportunity for drilling.  Perhaps the infinite language drills are not quite as necessary in Spanish, which appears to be more regular in grammar than the more idiosyncratic French grammar...
 
FSI French is extremely functional (over 24 units) but dry and somewhat painful--much like a root canal.  By combining FSI French (which seems to cover about 1 1/2 years of college French in terms of grammar) with the free French in Action course (available on www.learner.org/resources/series83.html), one can mix a spoonful of sugar in with the medicine and make it a far more pleasant process.  It is the French in Action course that inspires me to keep plugging away with FSI French.
 
By the way, I would recommend the same for anyone using an FSI course--use the FSI Course to learn grammar and actually learn how to speak, but supplement with other courses to develop more audio comprehension and vocabulary acquisition, while (even more importantly) finding material that adds a bit of joy to the process.
 
--John
 [edited for clarity]
 
 


Edited by jwcthev - 20 October 2006 at 10:15am
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raincrowlee
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Quote raincrowlee Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2006 at 10:31am
That was an awesome post.

I have a question, since I've only heard of French in Action and never used it. Is FiA appropriate for an absolute beginner? Or should you wait until you've mastered a certain number of chapters in FSI before starting it? What would be the most appropriate time to start FiA?
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daristani
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Quote daristani Replybullet Posted: 20 October 2006 at 10:54am
I second the above praise for jwcthey's very thoughtful and informative posting on the FSI French course, and would just like to add a brief note for those contemplating starting French from scratch:  FSI also produced a separate "French Phonology" course which introduces the various distinct sounds of French and the various ways they're represented in writing.  (The FSI Basic French course doesn't really explain these things, leaving the learner to pick it all up by imitation.)

The Phonology course should be put onto the site eventually, as materials for it have already been obtained.  I don't know how long it will take for this book/audio to be put onto the site, as there are other courses in the works as well, but when it does become available, it will yet further enhance the value of FSI French for learners.
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patuco
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Quote patuco Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2006 at 9:00am
Originally posted by raincrowlee

Is FiA appropriate for an absolute beginner?

Yes it is. If you can reinforce with FSI, even better.

By the way, great post John.
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erinserb
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Quote erinserb Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 3:17pm
John:

That is probably one of the best post about FSI and FIA on any language forum.  I plan to incorporate both - I've just been playing with both.  Time to get down to serious studies.
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TheBigZaboon
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Quote TheBigZaboon Replybullet Posted: 26 October 2006 at 11:17pm
I second (or third or fourth) the praise given to jwcthev (John) for an excellent analysis and comparison of different materials, and for well thought-through advice on how to use these materials. Everything said would be applicable to learning other languages, and to using other language courses on this site. 
 
I think there is a lot of expertise and long-experience in learning (and using) languages too-well hidden among the members of this forum. There are many members just starting out on their first language who could benefit from that experience. I suggest we all get down to talking about language study issues, and to exchanging advice and information on how to use these excellent materials to achieve what I hope to be our common goal: learning and using, or learning how to use our chosen target language.
 
TheBigZaboon
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patuco
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Quote patuco Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2006 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by TheBigZaboon

I think there is a lot of expertise and long-experience in learning (and using) languages too-well hidden among the members of this forum. There are many members just starting out on their first language who could benefit from that experience. I suggest we all get down to talking about language study issues, and to exchanging advice and information on how to use these excellent materials to achieve what I hope to be our common goal: learning and using, or learning how to use our chosen target language.

I could be wrong but what you've mentioned is simply the secondary aim of this site. There are subforums dedicated to discussing how to use each of the different courses to study but perhaps you could try the http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/ for a more comprehensive outlook.


Edited by patuco - 27 October 2006 at 2:01pm
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moquer
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Quote moquer Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2006 at 4:44pm
Since reading John's post I've been trying to get inspired by the French in Action course, but the Learner.org site won't let me stream the video due to copyright restrictions outside the US and Canada.
 
Does anybody have any suggestions, hints or cheats? Or is the only course of action to cop it sweet and plug away at FSI?
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patuco
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Quote patuco Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2006 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by moquer

Since reading John's post I've been trying to get inspired by the French in Action course, but the Learner.org site won't let me stream the video due to copyright restrictions outside the US and Canada.
 
Does anybody have any suggestions, hints or cheats? Or is the only course of action to cop it sweet and plug away at FSI?

As far as I know, you need to either download them via a proxy or find someone in the US who is willing to download them for you and send them via snail-mail.

There are lots of answers to this question on  http://how-to-learn-any-language.com (search for "French In Action" in the forum).
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