FSI Malay or Indonesian.
Printed From: FSI Language Courses
Category: Learning Languages
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Discussion about studying languages using the FSI courses. If you would like to see a specific language forum not listed below, just let us know.
URL: http://fsi-language-courses.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=319
Printed Date: 16 January 2009 at 3:21am
Topic: FSI Malay or Indonesian.
Posted By: FutureSpy
Subject: FSI Malay or Indonesian.
Date Posted: 19 February 2007 at 5:19am
Hi.
Was there ever any Malay or Indonesian FSI Language Courses? I tried looking for them, but couldn't seem to find anything on these ones.
Thanks -Yuji
------------- 真実はいつもひとつ!
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Replies:
Posted By: onebir
Date Posted: 19 February 2007 at 10:47am
There was an FSI (or DLI?) Indonesian Course. Some libraries in the US have it, but I've never seen any audio, so I doubt it'll be uploaded here soon...
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Posted By: TheBigZaboon
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 5:12am
There was an Indonesian Newspaper Reader available from FSI. It was not accompanied by any audio. It used to be on sale in the lobby of the State Department in Washington, DC, when Little Zaboona was just a girl, but I think it may have been allowed to go out of print. I think that is the only FSI material related to Indonesia. There is a book with the same title listed (but not available) on the ERIC site, but I don't know if it is the same one.
There is another reader called "Nah! Baca" that IS available on the ERIC site. You can reach it at the end of one of onebir's posts (I'm sorry, but I don't remember which thread it is in.). If you go to that listing and open the book with the newest version of the Adobe Acrobat Reader, you can save a copy for yourself free of charge. The "Nah! Baca" reader is more difficult than the old FSI newspaper reader. The FSI reader was pretty much an introductory textbook, starting out with headlines, and progressing through short "diplomacy" oriented news blurbs. "Nah! Baca" is a full-blown textbook for more advanced students.
See ya.
TBZ
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Posted By: DemiPuppet
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 10:35pm
Speaking of Indonesian Newspaper Reader, I've finished scanning the book. But I've run into a bit of a copyright issue. The FSI writers of the book failed to cite the newspaper sources. Indonesian copyright law (Number 19 , Year 2002) Chap 2, Part 5, Article 14 allows:
repetition, either in whole or in part, of news from a news agency, broadcasting organization, and newspaper or any other resources, provided that the source thereof shall be fully cited.
In order to safely add the book to this site, I need to know the newspaper(s) used. If anyone has access to Indonesian newspapers between March and June of 1968, please let me know. Most of the examples in the book have the exact date, so selecting a couple and verifying the newspaper should be easy.
Edit: This article of the law was valid in 1996, so USA copyright would be satisfied.
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Posted By: TheBigZaboon
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:44am
DemiPuppet,
This is a long shot, because I haven't seen this book in nearly 20 years, but if I remember correctly, the citation is at the beginning of each little clip. For example, there might be a date, and then something like Berita Yuhda, Berita Wartawan, Tempo, Berita Harian, etc., and a city name like Jakarta (Djakarta) or Surabaya. These items may be in a different order, but I thought they were included. That would be a citation of the news source, just like our attribution to AP, UPI, or Agence France Presse. I would think that would suffice.
TBZ
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Posted By: onebir
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 5:16am
The original notification email I got says this:
" Indonesian copyright law Article 13c allows:
repetition, either in whole or in
part, of news from a news agency, radio or television broadcaster, and
newspaper not less than 1 x 24 (one times twenty four) hours counted
from the initial publication of such news, and the source thereof shall
be fully cited."
The 24 hour reference seems to indicate there's no problem (unless the edit was necessary because this quote is from of date legislation).
What about citing them fully, but as a group? ie saying the quotes in this book come from [list of all indonesian newspapers in publication in 1968] - the book provides the dates, completing the citation from each article. That satifies the letter of the law (which has no chance of being exercised for 40 year old 'news'...)
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Posted By: DemiPuppet
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 9:21pm
The first post (before the edit) had the quote from the 1997 Act.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html
The latter one was from a link in Wikipedia to a UNESCO site containing the 2002 version of the act. The UNESCO site seemed more official...
I couldn't find any indication of which newspapers were used. Based on the dateline style (or lack of it), there was at least 2 and possible 3. Here are short examples of the 3 styles (Fair Use laws apply in this case):
Haile Selassie tiba di Australia Djakarta, 14 Mei Kaiser Ethiopia Haile Selassie I hari Senin tiba di Canberra, ibukota Australia, dari Djakarta.
Pak Ali di Paris Missis Ali Sastroamidjojo hari Minggu telah tiba di Paris dari Accra dalam perdjalanannja ke Afrika Utara.
Dubes Maramis Di Ulan Bator Ulan Bator, 14-5 Dutabesaar Replublik Indonesia untuk Republik Rakjat Mongolia, Max Maramis, hari Selasa telah diterima oleh wakil Menteri Luar Negeri I Mongolia, L. Toiv di Ulan Bator.
The FSI text gives definitions of all the words before giving the text of the news article.
If all else fails, I'll add a note to the beginning of the text listing the most popular newspapers of the time and let GDF make the call on whether it can be hosted on his site. Does anyone have a list of the most popular Indonesian newspapers of 1968?
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Posted By: TheBigZaboon
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 9:54pm
The newspapers and news services I listed in my previous post are a representative group that were popular at the time. They are the type of publications that would carry the articles that would turn up in the FSI Indonesian Newspaper Reader. There should be some mention of the sources somewhere in the book, either in the introduction, or at the back, in a bibliography. (Maybe I'm showing too much faith in the FSI folks.)
TBZ
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Posted By: DemiPuppet
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 10:46pm
I took another look through the book; didn't find anything.
I'll mention the titles you gave.
BTW, a subject search in WorldCat:
su:Jakarta (Indonesia) Newspapers produced about 130 hits. Not all of them were in production in 1968. Looks like the "Center for Research Libraries" in Chicago has a lot of the newspapers on microfilm, so if anyone lives in the area...
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Posted By: onebir
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 3:59am
"
The first post (before the edit) had the quote from the 1997 Act.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1955/copyact.html
The latter one was from a link in Wikipedia to a UNESCO site containing the 2002 version of the act. "
In that case, I don't think there's a problem. As a rule, legislation doesn't act retrospectively. If it does it usually spells this out in the section explaining when it comes into force. (At least for UK legislation.)
Assuming the more recent version of the act doesn't mention that it applies retrospectively - which seems very unlikely given its nature - the legislation that counts is what was in force at the time of publication. This included the 24 hour time limit, so the FSI weren't breaking Indonesian law by publishing the extracts (unless the reader was produced in record time), and there's no need to provide full citations now...
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Posted By: nieuk
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 4:14am
Originally posted by DemiPuppet
Speaking of Indonesian Newspaper Reader, I've finished scanning the book. |
Beat me.. damn :P ...Luckily for me, I only did a little bit.
I wasn't aware of the copyright issue though.. That's blows.
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Posted By: DemiPuppet
Date Posted: 22 February 2007 at 9:53pm
onebir:
In the "Wild West" days of US copyright law before 1978, everyone had to be in compliance with US formalities in order to get a copyright. Even foreign works. According to the Cornell web page on public domain, that meant registering their works with the copyright office. Otherwise it was in the public domain. Odds are the newspapers weren't registered, so the FSI just used their articles. After that everything changed; the US started respecting non-registered foreign works. Everything in the public domain in the foreign country as of Jan 1, 1996 was also in the public domain in the US. Conversely, some things formerly in the public domain now were copyrighted. Fortunately, Indonesian law is friendly; newspapers are in the foreign domain if 24 hours have expired and they are fully cited (Needless to say, I not going anywhere near FSI's "Dutch Reader" book.) I was only concerned about the meaning of "fully cited". I should be safe if I mention all the likely suspects. Otherwise, "Fair Use" would probably apply.
nieuk:
Sorry about that. I try to respect the Status Page. On the other hand I don't like getting my name on the page. A couple of months ago I felt pressure (real or imagined) to rush the Hebrew book before I had a chance to cleanup the text. Some of the characters are almost unreadable. So now I only announce a book after I've completed scanning. So in that regard, I should also mention I've completed scanning "Lao Basic Vol 1" and "Hindi - An Active Introduction". They'll get sent in with Indonesian as soon as I've finished cleaning up the text.
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Posted By: nieuk
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 7:31am
DemiPuppet: It's no skin off my nose since I study Indonesian anyway. I was going slowly with my scanning because I was studying the material at the same time. And I understand the not wanting it to be known - I get the impression that many people in the past here were impatient and didn't realise the amount of time and effort that goes into actually scanning a text or digitising tapes.
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Posted By: Chung
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 11:17am
Originally posted by nieuk
DemiPuppet: It's no skin off my nose since I study Indonesian anyway. I was going slowly with my scanning because I was studying the material at the same time. And I understand the not wanting it to be known - I get the impression that many people in the past here were impatient and didn't realise the amount of time and effort that goes into actually scanning a text or digitising tapes. |
Amen.
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Posted By: FutureSpy
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 4:54pm
Good to see there's some FSI material for Indonesian. The only decent self-study book I was able to find was Teach Yourself, but dunno, somehow I feel it lacks something...
Thank you! You guys are doing a really nice job 
BTW, it's a little off-topic, but what about FSI Tagalog (Pilipino/Filipino)? From what I know, it's a really fast-evolving language... Is it out of date?
------------- 真実はいつもひとつ!
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Posted By: nieuk
Date Posted: 26 February 2007 at 6:17am
FutureSpy: for other Indonesian resources you may want to look at Colloquial (it's alright, I found it secondhand for a few dollars) or Linguaphone (sometimes on eBay, try the .co.uk site). There's also an Assimil course, but it's French-based I believe. You're right though, there aren't really any 'complete' Indonesian courses. A combination of Colloquial and Linguaphone with a few cheaper books (Kenalilah, Bersama-sama, etc) has served me well though.
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Posted By: FutureSpy
Date Posted: 26 February 2007 at 7:46am
@nieuk: Thanks dude! It's cool to read others' experiences. My parents are kinda sick of me buying books for 'useless languages' (just quoting their words), so now I gotta pay everything out of my allowance. Can't spend too much otherwise I wouldn't have money to go out and stuff. So it's great if I can save some money by getting the right books :P Did you get the audio pack for both?
The biggest problem here, however, is the SHIPPING. From US/CA it's around $10 a book. For books with CD or tapes it usually goes beyond $15. If you order from Europe, then double these values. Still cheaper than buying at local bookstores though... ;_;
------------- 真実はいつもひとつ!
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Posted By: nieuk
Date Posted: 02 March 2007 at 1:30am
^^ - I hear all that.. my wife nags me :P ...Linguaphone was audio and books, but Colloquial I only got the book for. The audio I have borrowed from a local library a few times though.
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